Phases for implementing peer production: Towards a Manifesto for Mutually Assured Production - P2P Foundation2024-03-28T10:17:48Zhttps://p2pfoundation.ning.com/forum/topics/2003008:Topic:6275?commentId=2003008%3AComment%3A6312&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThis looks like a promising s…tag:p2pfoundation.ning.com,2008-09-09:2003008:Comment:63772008-09-09T15:55:14.000ZEric Huntinghttps://p2pfoundation.ning.com/profile/EricHunting
This looks like a promising start. I would like to suggest an additional intermediate stage in production evolution prior to regional; the industrial ecology as demonstrated by the personal computer industry. Industrial ecologies are precipitated by situations where traditional industrial age product development models fail in the face of very high technology development overheads or very high demassification in design driven by desire for personalization/customization producing Long Tail…
This looks like a promising start. I would like to suggest an additional intermediate stage in production evolution prior to regional; the industrial ecology as demonstrated by the personal computer industry. Industrial ecologies are precipitated by situations where traditional industrial age product development models fail in the face of very high technology development overheads or very high demassification in design driven by desire for personalization/customization producing Long Tail market phenomenon. A solution to these dilemmas is modularization around common architectural platforms in order to compartmentalize and distribute development cost risks, the result being 'ecologies' of many small companies independently and competitively developing intercompatible parts for common product platforms -such as the IBM PC.<br />
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Increasingly, we see today the design of many kinds of durable goods shifting away from monolithic architectures and their manufacturers shifting away from sole-ownership of production capacity. Sometimes this is intentional, sometimes it occurs when products become platforms by default through the emergence of after-market competition driven by the desire for customization and service. (as was nearly the case with the Volkswagen Beetle but suppressed by VW for lack of comprehension of the nature of the market phenomenon their product had produced) Production is increasingly contract-based and a growing number of 'manufacturers' don't actually manufacture anything. They just contract. This has produced a dual global trend in demassification and generalization (still across certain product sectors) of manufacturing capacity that has now produced a situation where the volume of consumer goods now produced by contract manufacture exceeds that produced by traditional factories.<br />
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The more vertical the market profile for a product the more this trend penetrates toward production on an individual level due high product sophistication coupled to smaller volumes. In the 90s the aerospace, defense, telecom, and IT industries experienced a phenomenon of engineering entrepreneurial flight, sometimes known as the midnight engineer phenomenon, where lack of job security coupled to cuts in benefits compelled many engineers to abandon corporate employment in favor of entrepreneurship with many becoming contract competitors to their former employers. Competitive contracting regulations in the defense industry (when they're actually respected...) tend to, ironically, turn many kinds of military hardware into open platforms by default, offering small businesses a potential to compete with larger companies where production volumes aren't all that large to begin with. Consequently, today we have a situation where key components of some military vehicles and aircraft are produced on a garage-shop production level by companies with fewer than a dozen employees.<br />
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All this represents an intermediate level of industrial demassification that is underway today and not necessarily dependent upon open source technology or peer-to-peer activity but which creates a fertile ground for that in the immediate future and drives the complementary trend in the miniaturization of machine tools. There is consequence to consi…tag:p2pfoundation.ning.com,2008-09-05:2003008:Comment:63552008-09-05T03:48:06.000ZNathan Cravenshttps://p2pfoundation.ning.com/profile/NathanCravens
There is consequence to consider with taking personal production out of the box without it becoming Pandora's box. If done appropriately, manifesting a tub or coffee house can be less hazardous than breathing, although breathing can have its hazards in the wrong conditions.<br />
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Once plotting of post-phase 3 begins it will be important to outline and ensure regulatory systems can prevent molecular (or smaller) assemblies from getting out of control. Paul Rothemund at the 2007 TED conference…
There is consequence to consider with taking personal production out of the box without it becoming Pandora's box. If done appropriately, manifesting a tub or coffee house can be less hazardous than breathing, although breathing can have its hazards in the wrong conditions.<br />
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Once plotting of post-phase 3 begins it will be important to outline and ensure regulatory systems can prevent molecular (or smaller) assemblies from getting out of control. Paul Rothemund at the 2007 TED conference discussed a method of preventing runaway duplication. (<a href="http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/paul_rothemund_details_dna_folding.html">http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/paul_rothemund_details_dna_folding.html</a>)<br />
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Strategic planning and testing systems on a small scale can ensure safety when things like tubs and coffee shops are made on the spot. MAP as a collaborative work can help by unifying a variety of social networks to make material creation as safe as possible. But if it needs a little bit…tag:p2pfoundation.ning.com,2008-09-02:2003008:Comment:63412008-09-02T22:06:22.000ZFranz Nahradahttps://p2pfoundation.ning.com/profile/FranzNahrada
But if it needs a little bit more than a portable device, you are really able to ignore the wonderful things we can do with flexibly automated workshop halls, container factories etc.???<br />
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Marcin Jakubowski is doing real open source production, and the blueprint for real life sustainance with apt tools, even if they are something rather traditional sometimes.<br />
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As I said, it depends entirely on product and material where the optimum production point will be - maybe some things will never reach…
But if it needs a little bit more than a portable device, you are really able to ignore the wonderful things we can do with flexibly automated workshop halls, container factories etc.???<br />
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Marcin Jakubowski is doing real open source production, and the blueprint for real life sustainance with apt tools, even if they are something rather traditional sometimes.<br />
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As I said, it depends entirely on product and material where the optimum production point will be - maybe some things will never reach Phase 3, while other things start right there. So what? Why not accept that water is purified and mineralized in a long - term process, food needs time to grow etc ? Nathan,
I think the question…tag:p2pfoundation.ning.com,2008-09-02:2003008:Comment:63392008-09-02T21:58:57.000ZFranz Nahradahttps://p2pfoundation.ning.com/profile/FranzNahrada
Nathan,<br />
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I think the question of producing material goods is an utterly serious one. Its different from doing and undoing virtual reality. If you create a coffee house or a bath tub, you are using material resources, time and space; you are interfering with other peoples life; you need other peoples support; you must care for the waste; you must care for things. Building out of nanoparticles is not funny, it might be a health hazard, it might be something disappointing and so on and so on.<br />
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If…
Nathan,<br />
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I think the question of producing material goods is an utterly serious one. Its different from doing and undoing virtual reality. If you create a coffee house or a bath tub, you are using material resources, time and space; you are interfering with other peoples life; you need other peoples support; you must care for the waste; you must care for things. Building out of nanoparticles is not funny, it might be a health hazard, it might be something disappointing and so on and so on.<br />
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If you read the p2p wiki you will see that I am very much in favor of open design and free production, but this should be a production that is seemlessly embedded in a cycle of creation and existence and dissapearance. Thats an enormous task, especially in our world where lunatic economy has eliminated all elements of passive competence between producers and consumers; where we simply are not even able any more to understand the most simple elements of product cycles. My enthusiasm is raised when I see full understanding of the necessity to create such a web of active and passive competences in p2p production. The focus of MAP is on produc…tag:p2pfoundation.ning.com,2008-09-02:2003008:Comment:63372008-09-02T20:30:11.000ZNathan Cravenshttps://p2pfoundation.ning.com/profile/NathanCravens
The focus of MAP is on production and systems building. You and those affiliated with your organization may be interested in helping to develop Personal Sustenance Fabricators that provide clean food, water, and simple shelter. This is a Phase 3 device that, with enough thought and effort, can become globally distributed for zero financial cost before the conditions for Phase 1 are met.<br />
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The Ethics of Mutual Assurance may also be of interest. The goal of this essay is to illustrate how best to…
The focus of MAP is on production and systems building. You and those affiliated with your organization may be interested in helping to develop Personal Sustenance Fabricators that provide clean food, water, and simple shelter. This is a Phase 3 device that, with enough thought and effort, can become globally distributed for zero financial cost before the conditions for Phase 1 are met.<br />
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The Ethics of Mutual Assurance may also be of interest. The goal of this essay is to illustrate how best to think and behave in a manner conducive to universal well being. I agree that optimality will…tag:p2pfoundation.ning.com,2008-09-02:2003008:Comment:63352008-09-02T19:48:19.000ZNathan Cravenshttps://p2pfoundation.ning.com/profile/NathanCravens
I agree that optimality will vary and it may not be practical to produce all things at a regional location. When a majority of wanted items can be made regionally, it can be said that Phase I is established and that we're well on our way to Phase 2. It may be that even after Phase 3, some things may need to be materialized elsewhere and transported from a far away location.<br />
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On the other hand, I look forward to being active in an Open Life Sustenance project that can produce simple food, clean…
I agree that optimality will vary and it may not be practical to produce all things at a regional location. When a majority of wanted items can be made regionally, it can be said that Phase I is established and that we're well on our way to Phase 2. It may be that even after Phase 3, some things may need to be materialized elsewhere and transported from a far away location.<br />
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On the other hand, I look forward to being active in an Open Life Sustenance project that can produce simple food, clean water, and a simple shelter all within a portable device available globally well before Phase I begins. If you know of such a project, I'm all ears. If one doesn't exist, let's begin the dialogue. I think developing a Portable Life Sustenance Fabricator is a modest Phase 3 project that can pave the way for more bells and whistles later on. This proposal is a sketch at…tag:p2pfoundation.ning.com,2008-09-02:2003008:Comment:63332008-09-02T19:30:59.000ZNathan Cravenshttps://p2pfoundation.ning.com/profile/NathanCravens
This proposal is a sketch at the moment. I think it is both good and hot air. Phase I in itself is a great goal, but too ambitious to start today for a variety of reasons. Additional steps will need to be outlined in the essay before approaching Phase 1.<br />
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MAP can be a highly active collaborative effort that can make each step seem more than possible.<br />
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When I briefly mention creating a customizable environment like a Coffee Shop in a post-Phase 3 environment, I can see how it might seem far…
This proposal is a sketch at the moment. I think it is both good and hot air. Phase I in itself is a great goal, but too ambitious to start today for a variety of reasons. Additional steps will need to be outlined in the essay before approaching Phase 1.<br />
<br />
MAP can be a highly active collaborative effort that can make each step seem more than possible.<br />
<br />
When I briefly mention creating a customizable environment like a Coffee Shop in a post-Phase 3 environment, I can see how it might seem far fetched. It could use more life, I agree, like a personal reason for wanting to create such an environment in the first place. Also, the essay is part outline, part essay at the moment. Its hardly an infant.<br />
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Another more evocative example might be you with a loved one, things get romantic, so you both decide to have a warm bubble bath together with candle light, rose pedals, oils, and all, in a matter of seconds.<br />
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I'm curious why your enthusiasm was exhausted after reading that particular example. Dear Nathan:
Great to see th…tag:p2pfoundation.ning.com,2008-09-01:2003008:Comment:63162008-09-01T13:02:10.000ZMichel Bauwenshttps://p2pfoundation.ning.com/profile/MichelBauwens
Dear Nathan:<br />
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Great to see the first replies. Here are some names of people you could/should approach for their very informed views on the subject: Eric Hunting, Vinay gupta, Smari McCarthy, and Chris Watkins, and marcin jakubowski. With their input, your document should reflect the key experts in the matter.<br />
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Michel
Dear Nathan:<br />
<br />
Great to see the first replies. Here are some names of people you could/should approach for their very informed views on the subject: Eric Hunting, Vinay gupta, Smari McCarthy, and Chris Watkins, and marcin jakubowski. With their input, your document should reflect the key experts in the matter.<br />
<br />
Michel I think its good to break dow…tag:p2pfoundation.ning.com,2008-09-01:2003008:Comment:63122008-09-01T07:07:27.000ZFranz Nahradahttps://p2pfoundation.ning.com/profile/FranzNahrada
I think its good to break down the question of p2p production to spatial realities. We were discussing the essentiality of convincing existing auto repair shops to convert into local manufacturing centers in the framework of an open source electric car project. I think this needs practical experience, and the question at which level manufacturing is decentralised optimally cannot be decided in an overall scheme.
I think its good to break down the question of p2p production to spatial realities. We were discussing the essentiality of convincing existing auto repair shops to convert into local manufacturing centers in the framework of an open source electric car project. I think this needs practical experience, and the question at which level manufacturing is decentralised optimally cannot be decided in an overall scheme. Nathan I do not know wether I…tag:p2pfoundation.ning.com,2008-09-01:2003008:Comment:63092008-09-01T07:00:57.000ZFranz Nahradahttps://p2pfoundation.ning.com/profile/FranzNahrada
Nathan I do not know wether I should think your proposal is good or if it is hot air. The Coffee Shop example yet is turning my enthusiasm down completely, it has no real life in it.
Nathan I do not know wether I should think your proposal is good or if it is hot air. The Coffee Shop example yet is turning my enthusiasm down completely, it has no real life in it.