Board game to understand non scarcity - P2P Foundation2024-03-29T04:50:13Zhttp://p2pfoundation.ning.com/forum/topics/board-game-to-understand-non?commentId=2003008%3AComment%3A11244&feed=yes&xn_auth=noLove the idea - can't think h…tag:p2pfoundation.ning.com,2009-04-25:2003008:Comment:116952009-04-25T05:03:01.000ZChris Watkinshttp://p2pfoundation.ning.com/profile/ChrisWatkins
Love the idea - can't think how to do it, but I look forward to seeing what you come up with!
Love the idea - can't think how to do it, but I look forward to seeing what you come up with! I would say that Bluebarries…tag:p2pfoundation.ning.com,2009-04-07:2003008:Comment:113752009-04-07T10:57:13.000ZPeter Froberghttp://p2pfoundation.ning.com/profile/PeterFroberg
I would say that Bluebarries and Almonds is a completely different issue. Digital production is uniqe in the radical speed the cost of manufacturing is exponentially decreasing.<br />
<br />
It is true that 10.000.000 has a larger cost then 10. But this I very small in the bigger perspective and it is getting increasingly smaller. (This is only seen from th view of the destributor)
I would say that Bluebarries and Almonds is a completely different issue. Digital production is uniqe in the radical speed the cost of manufacturing is exponentially decreasing.<br />
<br />
It is true that 10.000.000 has a larger cost then 10. But this I very small in the bigger perspective and it is getting increasingly smaller. (This is only seen from th view of the destributor) Peter Froberg wrote:
"The co…tag:p2pfoundation.ning.com,2009-03-31:2003008:Comment:112472009-03-31T14:10:28.000ZAGNUciushttp://p2pfoundation.ning.com/profile/AGNUcius
Peter Froberg wrote:<br />
<br />
<i>"The cost is virtually zero"</i><br />
<br />
Ok, I guess I was confused by your statement about 10 vs 10,000,000.<br />
<br />
10 people downloading a file from a website can be nearly disregarded, while 10,000,000 might cause major disruption. Similarly, the ecologic impact of 10,000,000 computers being used to display that file is much more profound than just 10 (both for their initial construction and also for the electricity they use).<br />
<br />
So, to follow through with this thinking, would you…
Peter Froberg wrote:<br />
<br />
<i>"The cost is virtually zero"</i><br />
<br />
Ok, I guess I was confused by your statement about 10 vs 10,000,000.<br />
<br />
10 people downloading a file from a website can be nearly disregarded, while 10,000,000 might cause major disruption. Similarly, the ecologic impact of 10,000,000 computers being used to display that file is much more profound than just 10 (both for their initial construction and also for the electricity they use).<br />
<br />
So, to follow through with this thinking, would you say the cost of something such as Almonds or Blackberries could ever approach "virtually zero" if we had them growing down every lane, or do you see that as a completely different issue?<br />
<br />
Thanks for your consideration.<br />
<br />
Sincerely,<br />
Patrick Anderson Hi Agnucius
I think you have…tag:p2pfoundation.ning.com,2009-03-31:2003008:Comment:112442009-03-31T11:26:10.000ZPeter Froberghttp://p2pfoundation.ning.com/profile/PeterFroberg
Hi Agnucius<br />
<br />
I think you have overlooked a small but significant detail in what I wrote:<br />
<br />
"The cost is virtually zero"<br />
<br />
Meaning that the cost i very close to zero, but not zero.<br />
<br />
None of the people that are talking about this area are saying that the cost is zero, but that it is so close to zero that it is insignificant in a larger perspective. From the producers side<br />
<br />
I am talking about this from the viewpoint of the producer. Not society in general.<br />
<br />
Best<br />
Peter
Hi Agnucius<br />
<br />
I think you have overlooked a small but significant detail in what I wrote:<br />
<br />
"The cost is virtually zero"<br />
<br />
Meaning that the cost i very close to zero, but not zero.<br />
<br />
None of the people that are talking about this area are saying that the cost is zero, but that it is so close to zero that it is insignificant in a larger perspective. From the producers side<br />
<br />
I am talking about this from the viewpoint of the producer. Not society in general.<br />
<br />
Best<br />
Peter Hi Peter,
I have spent some…tag:p2pfoundation.ning.com,2009-03-31:2003008:Comment:112092009-03-31T01:39:34.000ZAGNUciushttp://p2pfoundation.ning.com/profile/AGNUcius
Hi Peter,<br />
<br />
I have spent some time thinking about such a game myself. An old start is at <a href="http://EcoComics.sf.net">http://EcoComics.sf.net</a><br />
<br />
But before we can talk about that, there is a detail that must be ironed out if we are to make sense to each other.<br />
<br />
You say:<br />
<i>"distribution cost of a mp3 album is virtually the same weather 10 or 10 million people has a copy of the music."</i><br />
<br />
Many people say this. And I guess I understand what they intend, but unfortunately it is simply…
Hi Peter,<br />
<br />
I have spent some time thinking about such a game myself. An old start is at <a href="http://EcoComics.sf.net">http://EcoComics.sf.net</a><br />
<br />
But before we can talk about that, there is a detail that must be ironed out if we are to make sense to each other.<br />
<br />
You say:<br />
<i>"distribution cost of a mp3 album is virtually the same weather 10 or 10 million people has a copy of the music."</i><br />
<br />
Many people say this. And I guess I understand what they intend, but unfortunately it is simply incorrect.<br />
<br />
Digital content cannot exist without the physical resources needed to store it.<br />
<br />
Digital content cannot be copied without yet more physical resources needed to store that new copy.<br />
<br />
Digital content cannot be distributed without physical resources such as copper wire or satellites or wireless transceivers, or unless it is delivered by truck or plane on optical or magnetic media such as a tape or disc.<br />
<br />
And in all cases there is also energy (electricity, fuel, and even human effort) to operate and maintain those physical resources.<br />
<br />
These details may seem unimportant, but the reason I want to focus on them initially is so we can work toward the further understanding that <b>*all*</b> things have an 'infinite' side and <b>*all*</b> things have a 'finite' side.<br />
<br />
I hope this can be a fruitful discussion.<br />
<br />
Please see the following papers for a more complete treatment of this idea:<br />
<br />
* <a href="http://Blog.P2PFoundation.net/one-loaf-per-child/2007/06/14">http://Blog.P2PFoundation.net/one-loaf-per-child/2007/06/14</a><br />
* <a href="http://Groups.Google.com/group/gnu-society/browse_thread/thread/b661b4ba75a9a501">http://Groups.Google.com/group/gnu-society/browse_thread/thread/b661b4ba75a9a501</a><br />
<br />
love,<br />
Lord AGNUcius